Curse

**Marty Silverblade** · Apr 23, 2011, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urcscumug

But speaking of WE, Marty didn't technically say it's "stupid on an adren bar". I actually doubt he'd say that... but even if he would, I'd just respectfully disagree.

True, it makes the most sense all-around if you use WE to feed an all-energy bar... but that doesn't mean you can't use it to feed some of the bar, and mix in some adrenal skills too. Not for the reason that was posted above (to counter energy drain), but simply because you might have cool adrenal skills that deserve to be used and offer something better than the energy skills you have.

Agreed, though the question is: are there actually any worthwhile build concepts involving adrenaline attack skills and WE fueling other energy skills? Outside of attacks and Flail, adrenaline isn't used for much, and if you're relying on it, you're probably better off with a different elite in the first place. Warrior damage comes from hits, so anything that's fueled by WE better be damn good...

EDIT... unless they're shouts or otherwise instantly activatable. YMLAD + FH might push out something decent. Flail, SY, WE, and three adr attack skills might work. No FGJ hurts, though Dark Fury is easy enough to fit in these days.

Also, regarding IAS:
*Flurry is not permanent uptime. Sure, it is in theory, but are you really going to stare the recharge shadow for an entire half hour or so to hit it exactly on recharge? Not only is that generally detrimental (not watching more important things) but it'd be damned annoying.
*Flurry is an energy hog. 1e/second is equivalent to 3 pips of energy. Even without other energy skills, you're going to need a zealous to avoid running out of energy. That means no Vamp, so there's 3+ DPS gone.
*Saying Flurry doesn't require attribute investment is looking at it the wrong way. Flail is linked to Strength but no one is going to run low enough Strength that the duration is going to seriously matter. By comparison, things like Tiger Stance, Berserker Stance, and Burst of Aggression really lock you into pushing Str up to 13/14 (not that this isn't somewhat normal, but it's nice to have options).

Urcscumug · Apr 24, 2011, 03:50 PM // 15:50

Good points. That's how it is, sadly, there's no such thing as a "perfect" IAS.

DOW · Apr 25, 2011, 06:54 AM // 06:54

Thank you for the information on IAS, I did not know that before. While I have used this build I did wonder if it was needed so thank you.

Here is my current build.

Flail, Power Attack, Whirlwind Attack, Counterattack,Thrill of Victory,Sprint, Fear ME, Warrior's Endurance

I use sprint to get in there and then spam my energy attacks, then I use the IAS, then if I am surrounded I use whirlwind, or if they are just near i use Fear Me. When I have to run to the next enemy I use sprint to stop the slow down from flail. Then keep going.

I may try it with out flail and use frenzy.
Fear me is just a extra and can be replaced. I found 4 attacks works well so I get this extra slot I am trying to fill. I am just not sure what to fill it with. My sub class is dervish but I do not use it, any ideas?

Strength 14
Sword 12
Tac 8

Urcscumug · Apr 25, 2011, 01:18 PM // 13:18

It's a bit of a mess as it is, to be honest. You're mixing adrenaline and energy as fuel and also mixing skill attacks with auto-attacks. Investment into Swordmanship points with no sword-specific attacks (not useless, but they go exclusively to auto-attack -- I'm assuming you have a sword equipped?)

And then there's the big investment into Tactics and overall huge attribute point total, which makes me think you got some Major or even Superior runes in there, which drag down your HP.

It would be ok if the result was worth it but the total DPS is nothing to write home about.

Go with the basics. Either go adrenaline, or energy.

For adrenaline, use For Great Justice and an IAS, use 4 adrenal attack skills, one of which would be nice if it was an elite. Quivering Blade is a decent one until you can get either Dragon Slash or 100 Blades (depending on whether you go for balling up or focus on 1-on-1). For the other 3 you can have several choices: Sun and Moon Slash is always welcome; so's Standing Slash since you're likely to always be in IAS stance; one of Silvering Slash/Galrath Slash; there's the good old Sever Artery+Gash (boring but inflicts Deep Wound). For utility, get Enraging Charge to start off you adrenaline, or For Great Justice to build it up faster. And you still have 2 slots you can use for all kinds of stuff (Antidote Signet, Enduring Harmony, cool skills from title tracks etc.)

For energy-fueled builds Warrior's Endurance is of course useful. But I only capped it recently, still experimenting, don't feel confident enough to describe an energy-based build.

DOW · Apr 25, 2011, 05:47 PM // 17:47

Ok first, yes i am using a sword. I used to use adrenaline so I have a lot of the adrenaline sword skills, but most of my energy skills are in strength.

I use the 8 points in tac for Thrill of Victory.
I have no rune on for tac, It is sort of something I just had points in originally for To the limit.
I sometimes take them out but I run out of enough good damage skills and Thrill of Victory is a high damage skill.

I am on my way to getting both dragon slash and Hundred blades, so soon I will test a build for both of them and decide.

Thank you for the adrenaline skill ideas, however it is more energy skill ideas I could do with some help. A lot of them have a 8 second recharge time, so for me Power Attack and Counter Attack are the best so far.

Urcscumug · Apr 25, 2011, 07:24 PM // 19:24

It's true you're not likely to use more than 3, maybe 4 skills. You may wanna look into axe and hammer, those have a few more energy-based skills.

DOW · Apr 26, 2011, 09:57 AM // 09:57

I have just got Dragon slash, so I am working on a build involving that skill.

DOW · Apr 27, 2011, 09:12 AM // 09:12

Ok I have been messing around with dragon slash and this is my build for it.

Dragon Slash, Barbarous Slice, Gash, Body Blow, Flail, Enraging Charge, For Great Justice, Warroir Cunning

Seems to work, any improvements you thing I should make?

I now have some of the Eye of the north rank skills.

I also have Hundred blades, but I am not sure what build I should do for this.

Urcscumug · Apr 27, 2011, 04:54 PM // 16:54

Well, first the bad stuff:

Barbarous Slice is mutually exclusive with stances, and you're gonna want an IAS, so... bad feng-shui. No Barb Slice, no bleeding, and if no bleeding, Gash becomes a lot less useful. Body Blow needs Cracked Armor to be really good, you haven't mentioned who's gonna do CA? As for Warrior's Cunning, the effect is good, but the cost is big (half your energy pool) and the duration ot recharge ratio is horrible (10 vs 60s).

The good: you're no longer putting a lot of points in Tactics.

Dragon Slash builds are based around a single gimmick: the fact DS fuels itself while under For Great Justice. So, DS, FGJ, and Enraging Charge to help you get started. And of course the IAS will help you fire off DS more often. To which I'd advise adding Enduring Harmony to extend FGJ to 30s.

That leaves you with 3 free slots and the question "what do I do for 15s while FGJ recharges?"

A possible answer is stuff that will help you build up adrenaline and do some decent damage in the meantime. Standing Slash is a classic. Consider Sun and Moon Slash or Whirlwind Attack. The last slot can depend on circumstances.

100b builds are also quite gimmicky. The trick with those is to understand two things: (1) it's about adjacent aka point-blank AoE; (2) it's a latent (over a period of time) effect, and also time limited.

(1) means you need to pack AND maintain tight balls of enemies. In wide open spaces this is almost impossible without other players or a minion wall. It becomes easier if you can make the mobs turn a tight corner or slither along a wall, which you body block. (2) means you have to pick well the moment you activate the effect, and make the most of it while it lasts, because usually there's a "dead" period after it when you can't use it for a while.

100b is used in zones with lots of turns. The player goes and does body block and flags the rest of the party about 2 aggro bubbles back, so the mobs cannot reach them. He then activates 100b and uses Sun and Moon Slash or Whirlwind Attack to actually apply damage. Conjure spells from /E are also good, Vampiric weapon mods etc.

Meanwhile, the rest of the party focuses on: (a) healing and protting the player; (b) using AoE (non-scatter!) damage on the ball of mobs to kill them even faster; (c) applying stuff on the player that raises damage even more (such as Mark of Pain, Soul Barbs etc.) And you're going to have to micro (c) and sometimes (a) if you work with heroes because you can't afford to depend on the AI's whims.

But it all comes down to balling mobs up. Without it, 100b = zero.

Godrik Gandolfi · May 14, 2011, 03:10 PM // 15:10

My name is Godrik Gandolfi, and I too, was a Defy Pain addict... ;-)

But I have seen the light, and found the courage to move forward with more effective and less defensive builds...

Seriously though - just wanted to say thank you for such an excellent and informative thread. I happened to read it just at the point where I'm learning enough in the game to really experiment with my warrior builds. I was encouraged to find that I had worked some of this out for myself, but there was so much here - especially the IAS comparisons and adrenaline management tips, which has been invaluable.

So, thanks again! Am off work on my Dragon Slash build...